How Your Student Experience Shapes the Way You Teach

Series 1 Teacher to Teacher Podcast

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[00:00:02.65] NARRATOR: Welcome to Corwin's Teacher to Teacher Podcast with host Carol Pelletier Radford. Carol is an experienced classroom teacher, and university educator, founder of mentoringinaction.com, and author of four bestselling professional books for teachers. She believes the best form of professional learning happens when teachers engage in authentic conversations and share their wisdom.

[00:00:23.89] In every episode, Carol and her guests share stories about pivotal moments in their careers, successful classroom strategies, and personal actions they take to minimize stress and stay healthy. The Teacher to Teacher Podcast is a place to engage in authentic conversation and reflection with experienced educators. We hope these conversations will energize you, keep you inspired, and remind you why you chose to become a teacher.

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[00:00:49.20] TORI MELLO BACHMAN: Hello. Welcome to the Teacher to Teacher Podcast, sharing our wisdom with our host Carol Radford. I'm Tori Bachman, a Corwin editor and co-organizer of this podcast. We created the podcast for teachers at all levels, who were searching for practical wisdom that they can use in their classrooms.

[00:01:07.16] We're all constantly learning and learning together. To share their wisdom today, we have two teacher guests Tricia Ebarvia and Adam Pelletier. I'll introduce them now. Tricia Ebarvia is an anti-bias, anti-racist, literacy educator who is also a co-founder of the DisruptTexts blog and 31DaysIBPOC blog. And she is a co-founder of the Institute for Racial Equity in literacy.

[00:01:34.01] Before her current role as the Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at an independent school in Philadelphia, Tricia taught high school English for 20 years and served as a department chairperson. Tricia is also a Corwin author. Her new book titled Get Free-- Antibias Literacy Instruction for Stronger Readers, Writers, and Thinkers comes out in October 2023. Hi, Tricia. We're really happy you're here.

[00:02:01.94] And today, we're joined by Adam Pelletier, a teacher who is featured in Carol's recent book titled, When I Started Teaching I Wish I Had Known-- Weekly Wisdom for Beginning Teachers. Adam is a high school television production teacher in Middleborough, Massachusetts. He graduated from Boston College before returning to his home town of Middleborough to begin teaching in 2004. Adam is grateful for the opportunity to help the next generation of students discover their passion for a television production. Hey Adam. Thanks for being here.

[00:02:34.48] ADAM PELLETIER: Thank you so much.

[00:02:35.56] TORI MELLO BACHMAN: Both of these teachers bring their wisdom and ideas to us today. And I really look forward to hearing how they can guide us through the first season of the school year, where we focus on starting strong and creating a community of learners. So now, I'll turn it over to Carol. And our guests and share some teacher wisdom. Thank you both.

[00:02:56.56] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you, Tori. This is so exciting. I love focusing on teacher voices and teacher wisdom, because I believe that much too often, we look outside of education for the wisdom and we bring it into the schools from what we call experts. And I believe the experts in the field of education are the teachers who have experienced the classroom and can bring forward their ideas and wisdom through their stories.

[00:03:27.56] So let's get started. I think before we jump into some questions, I'd like each of you to have an opportunity to give a snapshot of your journey into teaching. So why did you become a teacher? How did you end up where you are now teaching this? Did you always want to teach? What's that story? And Tricia, let's start with you.

[00:03:54.10] TRICIA EBARVIA: Thanks, Carol. I think my journey to teaching is one that didn't start out as wanting to become a teacher. It was not on my radar at all. In fact, I was very, very shy in school. So if you told me I would be standing in front of teenagers, one of the harshest audiences you can imagine, I would not have believed you.

[00:04:13.68] But education, looking back, has always been really important. My parents are immigrants from the Philippines. That was instilled into me at a very young age that education is the key to just having a successful life. But as I grow older, I also realize that education is critical for healthy democracy and for people to fulfill their potential.

[00:04:36.38] And as I took courses in college, that was really reaffirmed for me. And I knew I liked working with people. I liked working with young people. I couldn't be in an office. And so I also loved to read and write. So an English teacher made perfect sense. So I did that for 20 years. And I loved it. When the pandemic hit a few years ago, there was just a lot of things that were already unsustainable about teaching that became even more unsustainable during the pandemic.

[00:05:06.10] And I really started thinking about where I wanted to focus. And I'd been doing a lot of diversity, equity inclusion work in addition to my role as English teacher and department chair. And I moved into this role as a director of diversity, equity, inclusion at an independent school. And this is my second year now. So I get to be with little people. So now, I have teaching experience in pre-K through 12.

[00:05:33.81] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Wow. Oh, my God. You have quite a journey. And I think it's interesting that some people don't find that calling, if you will, or that interest until college. So thanks for sharing that. Adam, what about you? How is your journey different or the same? Or when did you decide to become a teacher? What was that defining moment?

[00:05:58.09] ADAM PELLETIER: I think actually decided that I wanted to be a teacher probably year 2 of teaching. Like, I think I actually want to do this. So similar to Tricia, the path was not a straight line. It wasn't like, I want to be a teacher and I'm going to do x, y, and z and do that. So my focus was really on my content area. Fortunately, this class, I took the class that I'm teaching now, and I just a brilliant, amazing, hardworking teacher Mr. Hilsabeck, who is really a mentor to me.

[00:06:32.17] And when I graduated from school, I wanted to pursue television production. I wanted to travel all over and film games for ABC Sports and ESPN and make films and whatever that meant. And those were my dreams. So there was an element, actually my senior year of college, my teacher was lining up his retirement and trying to come up with a replacement.

[00:06:55.69] And he contacted me. And he actually came down and visited for a day and shadowed him around the school and I'm like, there's no way I'm doing this. Just managing all these personalities from these young people, and there was actually a moment where it felt like-- I don't know if failure is too strong of a word. But it felt like something like I was giving up on pursuing something by just returning to my hometown that first year, because in high school-- when I was in high school, I think that a lot of high school students I teach now will say, jeez. I'm getting out of this town.

[00:07:28.97] Then they just don't-- they can't appreciate the forest for the trees and see how good it is here. But anywho. So I entered teaching and got recruited by my former teacher. And it was the best decision I ever made to reluctantly accept that teaching position. So I think coming at it from the content area knowledge but not necessarily having the formal training in taking these teaching courses in college, I think there was some definite blind spots I had.

[00:08:03.29] But after that first year, which is really, really difficult for every teacher, I had the opportunity to work at my college to run the TV studio there and was faced with a critical decision, like should I jump ship and transition to work at Boston College? And after that moment, I made the decision, you know what? I think this teaching just fits my lifestyle and having the extra time off, I can pursue wedding videography and other interests in my content area and save for a house and have all these other opportunities.

[00:08:38.24] And at that point, the teaching part kind of really opened up and turned into a calling. And all these rewarding, fulfilling experiences started to blossom from that. So definitely, not a straight line in terms of this is where I want to be, but I am so grateful that I ended up where I am today.

[00:08:56.60] And I don't think I would have gone for any other teaching position, except for Middleborough TV pro to return to my roots and pay it forward for the next group, because I know how much it meant to me. So I think that's how I ended up where I am now. And again, definitely the best decision that I've made for sure.

[00:09:18.86] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thanks, Adam. So what I want to point out to our listeners today is that we all come to teaching in different ways. And my story is totally different because I decided in third grade, with my favorite teacher, I'm going to be a teacher. And then my whole life was just directed around teaching.

[00:09:37.50] So in our listening audience, I'm sure we all have these different roots. I think what's important for us to remember is, it isn't the route so much as when we make that decision and find that calling or that place within us that we followed our heart. It just feels right. And that's what I'm hearing in both of you.

[00:10:01.23] So this is called teacher to teacher sharing our wisdom. And I want to just say a little bit about what wisdom, how I define wisdom with this teacher spin. And I would say, it's the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment. And I have been learning that teachers can share a lot of wisdom with each other through stories.

[00:10:29.70] So I have invited each of you to share a story of a time where something happened in this career of teaching and how you made the decision that has made you wiser. Like you learned from the experience. It might have been a little bit challenging at the time, but that you have changed your way of teaching. You're more effective now because of this. So this took some reflection to have you think of this memory. So Tricia, share something that's happened that has made you a more effective teacher through a story.

[00:11:16.50] TRICIA EBARVIA: Sure. When think back to when I first started teaching, actually, I think teachers need to think about or without even knowing their experience as students in school often informs the way they show up as teachers. And when I was in school, I went to predominantly white schools, as one of the only Asian-Americans and in fact, maybe it was me and my brothers-- the only Filipino Americans at my Catholic school through eighth grade and then I went to a predominantly white high school, it felt, in some ways, a little lonely, even though I had wonderful friends.

[00:11:58.02] And I learned very early that my cultural identity was not one that was welcomed in school. Not through any types of bullying or anything like that. In fact, I had wonderful friends growing up. But just in the ways in which they didn't understand or treated my culture or my family. The fact that I had grandparents who didn't speak English who lived with us. I mean, that was, quote, "weird."

[00:12:23.80] And I remember having friends who would make fun of my grandparents accents. And so it was very clear to me that school was not a place where I could bring that part of my identity. And at the same time, I had parents and family who instilled a great love of culture in me. So I had to keep these two things separate. And I took everything about who I was and where I came from and who my family was and what I was really proud of, and I had to keep it in a box and lock it away when I went to school.

[00:12:53.42] So I think when I went and became a teacher, that script came back. I don't even know if I was aware of it, but that script just came right back. And I felt like I couldn't those dozers parts of my identity into the school where I was teaching in front of students. And I was teaching at a school-- actually that was very similar like Adam. Not exactly the same school, but like Adam, a similar school to the one I had gone to.

[00:13:24.04] And so I locked those parts of my identity away. And I remember being really taken aback when would have students ask me where my family was from or what my ethnicity was. And I didn't take it as a you don't belong here, microaggression at all. It was simply students who just wanted to know more about this person who was sitting and standing in front of the room.

[00:13:47.86] But I remember feeling like, just giving some really short answers and not really wanting to talk about that part of my life. And so I think a learning that I've had is that I wish I had done that-- I wish I'd been more open about showing up as my full self earlier. And not just for the students who had asked me where I'm from or something, but I mean, I taught a lot of Asian-American students over my years.

[00:14:12.43] And I think if I could have shown up as my full self, talk about my identity, talk about my family, talk about my culture and traditions in a way that wasn't embarrassing that I felt really proud of, that it was just normal to be who I was, if I could just normalize that for those kids and have them see that that wasn't something that they had to hide away, I wish I'd done that sooner. I mean I got to there, I got to that point, but I wish I had done that sooner for those kids. And for all kids, really.

[00:14:41.99] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you for that powerful message and your honesty and integrity around what it feels like, because I-- I feel because you have the courage to put this right out there, that teachers that are listening and myself and you and just saying it out loud, it makes it explicit that we don't need to hide.

[00:15:09.74] But those fears emerge, and I'm guessing that your new book is going to help teachers identify those fears and minimize them so that the students in the classroom can feel more that community of learners, which we're trying to do at the very beginning of the school year, bring kids together and teachers together. But I love the way you used your own memory of being in school. We don't think of that so often. How is your story related to the work-- this new position here too, how does that fit with that, Tricia?

[00:15:55.91] TRICIA EBARVIA: Well, now that I'm in a pre-K to eighth school, I mean, I got my first messages about what was appropriate for school and not very, very early, even though I taught high school. And so I think in my role as a DEI director and as part of the leadership here at the school, I really think about the ways I can coach and partner with teachers in thinking about how we can make sure that we normalize difference. That difference isn't something to be ashamed of or hidden away like the message I got. But that it's something to be celebrated. And isn't it amazing?

[00:16:31.95] And I'm of a generation that grew up with, you don't talk about skin color and so on. And to just be in a pre-K room and to be able to say with four-year-olds, this is where our skin color comes from. There's this amazing thing called melanin. It's like sunscreen. And some of us have more and less and--

[00:16:50.24] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love it. Yes.

[00:16:51.36] TRICIA EBARVIA: I mean, you know it's just a way to destigmatize the taboo conversations that I think many parents and caregivers and teachers have grown up with.

[00:17:02.42] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes.

[00:17:02.97] TRICIA EBARVIA: To remove that discomfort so that we can really all be in a journey of getting free of the biases that we may have been socialized into.

[00:17:12.21] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh. So wise. Adam, before we share your story, do you have any reaction to what you heard Tricia say as a high school teacher and teacher of TV production? Does anything resonate with you?

[00:17:27.72] ADAM PELLETIER: Yeah. Absolutely. That was the word I was going to use. I think two of the things resonated with me. And what Tricia said in the beginning about when you become a teacher, you almost-- like you put yourself back in that seat as the student. And it's like, what was my teacher like? Or what do they-- how did I learn best, and for me, how that translated to my early teaching career, it was more like my learning style is x, y-- I'm more visual and more this type of learner.

[00:17:59.32] So the curriculum was more geared around how I would succeed as me the student, instead of how all the different types of learning skills and abilities and strengths that the students have. Also there was this element first year, I was only four years older than some of the students I was teaching in the room and I definitely looked young for my age, and it just felt like I had to put on this mask. I'm the teacher mask.

[00:18:27.55] And I'm projecting like, I know all the answers. And if you tell me something, I better know the answer, because. I'm the teacher and once I drop that and just became more of my authentic self, and you know what? I don't know what that-- let's figure that out together. I feel like it became much easier to build real relationships with the students in a way where now it's a little bit-- they're more forthright to open up information about them and how they learn best and just learn about them in general.

[00:18:54.00] Because building those relationships, I think, is so key. And at the high school level, it's also-- in terms of, these students are like-- I don't know. The way our culture is is you don't want to stick out. And it's like, all the high school kids all want to blend in. And whatever that-- and it was the same when I was in-- whatever the cool brand is, I want to wear that shirt so no one makes fun of me.

[00:19:17.10] And all the things I don't know that I don't know, and all these biases that exist that I'm excited to learn more about with Tricia, that was evident too. And the kids are going through that. And I think if you can present and be your authentic self as the teacher and model that behavior, I do think it does make it more accessible for the students to discover who they are and who they want to become, even beyond TV pro.

[00:19:45.59] I look at my role as TV pro. I don't know. I feel like the most important work I do isn't about how to set up a camera and how to record something, it's more about working together and learning to create the discipline and the stamina to get through all the work in high school and beyond. Yeah. So I think that was definitely really good.

[00:20:06.06] TRICIA EBARVIA: Diversity comes in all forms, including neurodiversity. And of course, it intersects with a lot of our other social identities, including race and gender and so on. And we do know that depending on what identities are most visible in the classroom, like we all have biases as teachers. We look around at the room and we might form a judgment.

[00:20:26.38] Just like they do about us about what type of student they might be. I mean, there's been research actually that has shown that, because of the model minority, myth, and Asian-Americans being quote unquote, "good at math," and by the way, was not good at math. That they did a study that showed that Asian-American students who were quiet often would not get the help that they needed in math class because the teacher assumed that being quiet meant that they understood everything that was going on.

[00:20:57.03] Meanwhile, the same exact quiet behavior among other students, especially, white students, was seen as like, do you need extra help? Can I support you? So I think that's where these biases play a role. And if you're not reaching all your students as learners, then it becomes really hard for kids to know whether or not-- or in what ways they belong. And in what ways their needs will be met.

[00:21:22.19] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that. Thank you for tying that together. Adam, you have a story to share too of a learning experience that you had a few years ago that, I think, fits into this conversation as a teacher learner and building community and helping kids succeed. Do you want to just share a snapshot of that story?

[00:21:43.30] ADAM PELLETIER: Sure. And yeah. So over the past few years, I feel like I've experienced a lot of opportunities for growth, because my whole classroom is switched around between the pandemic and the restrictions of that in 2020 and online learning. And I'm teaching a hands-on course where the kids can't actually touch the equipment and work in groups anymore, and they're all 6 feet apart.

[00:22:09.51] And I had this experience in my district where our TV studio was actually built in a different school, because at the time, the high school didn't have space for it. So I would shuttle students back and forth in a bus, which actually created a restriction in enrollment, which the teacher previous to me said OK. We need to create some sort of application system in order to vet and get the people who want to be in the class and have interest enrolled, because there's only spots for a certain amount of people.

[00:22:40.48] But anyway, that all changed during the pandemic and numbers doubled and tripled and it created a lot of challenges. It also created a lot of opportunities. And I was seeing, I think, just in my community, there was a lot more diversity culturally and also students going through different transitions. Whether it's gender-related or anything like that.

[00:23:04.48] And there's just a lot of-- a lot of trauma went on during the pandemic that I'm sure every teacher can relate to. And it just led to a lot of disengagement in the classroom. And now for the first time in 16 years, students are facing failing. Because in TV pro prior to that, it was the numbers were so small. I could meet every kid one to one and make sure they succeed.

[00:23:27.00] And now I was challenged with my teaching style. Now I can't see 24 kids and work with them all at the same time and let them cross that finish line. And they were disengaging and wearing masks, I feel like I couldn't meet who these kids were. So when I started contacting parents about the trouble their students were going through, I'm realizing just how complicated all their lives are beyond the classroom.

[00:23:49.80] And it's shame on me for realizing this now. But as hard as it is to be a teacher, it's just so much harder to be a student now more than ever. So it gave me a whole level-- extra level of compassion for these students. And it kind of like filled in some empty blanks. And instead of it being what did you do or why didn't you do this, it's more coming at it from a place of what happened? How can we resolve this and trying to build those connections during the pandemic was definitely a challenge.

[00:24:23.40] But I think once I started to know the students and the situations and challenges they were facing, which some of these things, just no one should have to go through, let alone at the age of high school. So I think just having that information really helped shape my approach to them. And in my teaching, in my instruction and help them cross that finish line and achieve what success is for them.

[00:24:50.55] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thanks, Adam and Tricia. Thank you for being willing to be in this really honest and intimate and wise discussion of our learning as teachers. I think we just keep learning. And sometimes, we wish we had known it in our first year, but we're learning it now. And I feel like it's continuing to change. But the Teacher to Teacher Podcast, why we're doing this is that we want it to be visible that we are growing as the challenges and successes come before us. Because it isn't that it's all challenging.

[00:25:32.18] So let's shift a bit to it's the beginning of the school year, we are trying to create communities of learners, we have this philosophical stance that you both have presented really in an honest and straightforward way, but now, the listeners want to get some takeaways. OK. I'm listening to this talk. What can I do in my classroom to build a community of learners? What's a takeaway? A strategy? A bit of advice. Tricia, what have you done that somebody could say, I can do that. I can do that in my classroom and take that away. What do you have for us?

[00:26:11.94] TRICIA EBARVIA: Well, first thing I want to say is, building community starts, yes, on the first day of school. But it's year round. I think too often, we think about doing community building activities at the beginning of the school year and then we're like, OK. We did that for a week--

[00:26:24.99] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes exactly.

[00:26:25.37] TRICIA EBARVIA: --or two weeks and then now we're done.

[00:26:27.34] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you for saying that. So true.

[00:26:29.67] TRICIA EBARVIA: It's really important that it's intentional. And the other thing I want to say is that building community and relationships among students is something that has to be scaffolded. Just like you would scaffold any instruction-- just like you wouldn't teach-- when kids are younger, they learn to write a couple words and sentences before they move on to full essays. You have to do the same thing with your kids.

[00:26:53.58] And so you have to offer ways for them to interact. Even if small ways, every day, consistently, share a little. Share a little bit more. You have to build the muscle. Because the truth is, some kids, they may feel very comfortable in one classroom, but because of the nature of who's in your room and you don't get to decide who's on your roster, it's not a draft.

[00:27:14.05] So you have to find ways for kids who come with all sorts of histories. Histories with each other to build trust. And so we have to model that as teachers. We have to model what caring looks like. We have to model that. Because we're not just here as content providers, we're here as-- this is a way you can be in the world.

[00:27:37.04] I'm a full person, I'm imperfect. This is how I show up in my identity, this is how I talk about my family, this is how I talk about my friends, this is how I'm reflective and curious. So we have to model that. And I think we can model how it looks like to treat each other. So one of the things that I've done, that I started doing and then it just evolved is, I would keep a notebook. Just a little small notebook and I would write every student's name at the top of the notebook. And that each student would have a page.

[00:28:08.19] So the top of each page is a student. And I would just start recording information about them. Now, that sounds very, maybe, creepy. I don't know, but--

[00:28:15.61] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: No.

[00:28:16.25] TRICIA EBARVIA: --it was a way for me. So I would take out this notebook and would be on my desk. So I would always remember to look at it. At first, it actually started as a way to help students be better writers. Because students would wonder, well, I have nothing to write about. And I started realizing, you have so many things to write about, because you shared so many things in class.

[00:28:37.16] But as you know, you can't remember what happened between one period and another. So I just started keeping track for them. So I started making observations about so-and-so shared a family memory at being at a cabin or so-and-so shared that funny story about riding their bike. And I just started keeping track. And it really helped and we had writing conferences, because they wouldn't know what to write about.

[00:29:00.82] But it also helped because I could bring it up naturally organically during class discussion. So I could know what it looks like to remember-- to care enough about another person in our community. To remember what their past is, to remember what was important to them. Even if they mentioned it months ago.

[00:29:20.52] And what I noticed is kids started doing that for each other. They would just start keeping better track of who was in the room with them and connect to stories they had heard before. And so it's little things like that that I think really can help build community and really offer those little moments, those structures. So that was an easy way for me to do it as a teacher to keep track.

[00:29:44.15] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that.

[00:29:44.24] TRICIA EBARVIA: I mean, I had 130 kids. There was a lot--

[00:29:46.40] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I know. How did you do that? Yes. That's a lot to keep track of. And I think what I want to underscore that you said is the-- it's not so much the teacher remembering each thing about the individual student back and forth. It's the intentional way in which you publicly let everyone know that Joey likes to skateboard and those interests.

[00:30:13.20] You reminded me, actually when I was an elementary school teacher, I would end the day with a compliment that we would give a compliment. And it started out with just me giving the compliment to a student I was trying to reinforce good behavior. So I would say, oh, I would like to compliment Tricia for helping Jose with his math. Thank you so much.

[00:30:36.60] And then the person that I complimented had to say, thank you. They had to-- I had to teach them to accept the compliment. But it evolved into the students complimenting each other, just like you were saying. And the first time it ever happened that one student said, well, I'd like to compliment Adam. And I'm like-- I got goosebumps. Because that was the magic. That it took it away from me, the teacher, doing it to student to student starting to see what the good things were.

[00:31:11.13] Because the bad things we could see pretty clearly. It's that attention to what is good. And then I do remember one day where a student said, and I would like to compliment you, our teacher. And I was totally-- I'm like, oh, my God. And I just said, oh, thank you. Thank you. So that's a great piece of advice. Listeners, I hope you're writing that one down. Even though she had 130 students, I think it's possible. Just get started. So Adam, what's your practical building community that you do at the beginning of the school year? What works for you?

[00:31:49.19] ADAM PELLETIER: Yeah. And first of all, definitely the notebook and the compliment. I'm definitely stealing them. So that's--

[00:31:56.21] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Good. We're doing it. Teacher to teacher.

[00:31:59.19] ADAM PELLETIER: I love that tip on compliments.

[00:32:00.87] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK.

[00:32:01.97] ADAM PELLETIER: So I think for me-- again, I think like what Tricia said is really important too. You can't just-- here's the rules. Here's the norms on the first 20 minutes. And then it's like, OK. Follow-- and then be like, sit down over there. And it's like-- for me, it's like-- to me, the two key words I want to emphasize with my students is dignity and respect. So everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, me included. And they deserve that too.

[00:32:30.33] So I need to check myself too in those moments that might be frustrating and make sure I'm following through with my end of the deal and I'm modeling that behavior, because there shouldn't be anything that happens in the room that can make me like feel an emotion that I don't want to project in the room.

[00:32:48.34] Because if I don't want the students to show frustration, then I should try that to model that as well. But one thing in TV pro that-- and my own personal life too that I love to do is take photos. So one thing we do that I started is taking pictures of everyone. And we really do it the first or second day of class.

[00:33:08.53] So I take every student's headshot. And this year I had 107 students. And I took all their pictures and we put it on the wall in my classroom. And it started out probably 10 or 12 years ago. And we actually-- they took their name and they made an acrostic poem with their name. So if it was Adam, it might be active, digital, always alert, I don't know. Whatever it is to spell Adam.

[00:33:34.95] And the kids would see it on the wall. So when it was their block to come into class, they would scan the whole wall and say, oh, what did this person say and what did this person say? And there was this sense of community being built, because now we're all one crew. And part of the curriculum is you have to record things after school and in the evening and tape school events and games.

[00:33:54.57] So I'll say something like when you see someone like this in the hall, say hi to them. They're a part of your crew. You're going to do shoots together. Things like that. So I do think there was a reluctancy day 1 when they don't know who I am and who each other are or they might have those pre-existing relationships. Whether it's in-person or online that I'm not aware of and all these conflicts.

[00:34:16.82] It might make it hard, but we power through that. And I think getting through those first-- the awkward moments of taking their picture and getting it on the wall, and there'll be a handful of students who's like, I really don't want my picture on the wall. And I'll say, OK. Let's just take the picture just in case. And I'll print it out. And then every time they want it to be after we take the picture and they see what it looks like, they want to be a part of that.

[00:34:40.65] So I think that's one thing that I do. And I really want to continue that as we continue the new school year and beyond is taking their picture. And some of the other things are things that teachers have probably used already or heard before. And I'm probably the last one to find out.

[00:34:58.58] But just meeting them at the door as they come in and just starting that conversation and getting to know their interests and whether they play on athletic teams or they're in anime club or they're in Dungeons and Dragons group after school or whatever that is for them that their interests are. Because we will run into issues, similar to what Tricia says. There's nothing to write about.

[00:35:22.56] For us, it might be there's nothing going on to make a news story about or a highlight for. And I can tap into those personal interests they have to create something for them. So I think the pictures-- and I just take a ton of candid photos during class. And we have this giant bulletin board in schools, in our classroom. So we just have this whole montage of collage of pictures, and every once in a while, I'll swap them out.

[00:35:47.37] And think for a kid to see themself on that wall, it's kind of cool. They feel like they belong. And it's a little bit easier to enforce the classroom expectations and norms when they feel like they're a part of it instead of me just telling them what to do.

[00:36:03.72] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that. Thanks, Adam and Tricia, both of you, for these really concrete ideas that our listeners can take away. Now, we're winding down. A few more questions. So here's the thing. We teaching is stressful. It's challenging. It's complicated. There's just been so much since COVID and back from COVID. And you know what? It was stressful before when I was teaching.

[00:36:28.71] So we always have these situations where teachers are going to feel a lot of pressure. So you too sound happy and successful. And you're in new jobs and you're excited. So I hear that in your voices. What do you do-- and maybe it's outside of school. I know self-care is a buzz word and I don't want it to be like, oh, I just get a massage and I'm cured. Because that isn't really the case.

[00:37:00.25] So I guess, what inspires you to stay with this? What do you do to keep yourself healthy so you can continue to go in and be the best teacher you can be? Tricia, what do you do? What's your magic bullet kind of?

[00:37:20.03] TRICIA EBARVIA: Honestly, it's people. I think I remember a student a few years ago asked-- we had one of those philosophical discussions about, what's the meaning of life? And I had a very quick answer actually. I said it's like we find meaning in other people and our relationships with others.

[00:37:37.54] And I think as a teacher, that has saved me more than once. Because teaching can be a very isolating profession. Like Adam said earlier, there's this expectation to be the sage on the stage and to have all the answers, especially when you're a young teacher and the age difference between you and your students, especially if you teach high school, is actually not that much, you feel like you have to put on airs and put this authority out there.

[00:38:03.09] And that's real. And I think it's really important as teachers to have our people. And it doesn't mean that you have to agree with everyone. It doesn't mean that you have to be best friends or anything, but you have to have people who professionally get you and who can be a creative thought partner with you. Because that's the other thing. I mean, I would not be the teacher I am if I wasn't teaching courses with 2 or 3 or 4 other people and then we got to sit down and think, how do we make this relevant for our kids?

[00:38:34.23] What's a way that we can get kids engaged? And that creativity fuels some of the days where it feels really hard. And then when you see kids' reaction to the things that you've put hard work into, that just makes it all worth it. And I will say too that when I got involved, I think back to my career about things that have sustained me and kept me moving forward when I got involved with my national writing project local site, when I began going to teacher conferences, when I had an experience in a teacher fellowship program that connected me to a dozen other teachers across the country.

[00:39:09.78] And then honestly on social media. Developing a community of teachers who are, I don't want to say just like-minded, but who are interested in the same issues around social and racial justice. It was really important for me to have those people to be encouraging, to know that what I'm facing even it feels like it's only a couple people in my school who are understanding of what I'm going through. I could find others at schools across the country who are also experiencing the same kind of challenges.

[00:39:41.16] And together, we could brainstorm solutions, we could commiserate, we could be creative. So I just think finding your people, finding the community. And not just about-- it's not just about finding a pre-formed community either and then like inserting yourself or adding yourself into it. It's also building one. Build a community for yourself.

[00:40:03.93] And I've been really intentional about building that. Tori mentioned earlier, one of the projects that I do is 31DaysIBPOC. And it's a blog for teachers of color that we do daily during the month of May and we just finished our fifth year. And that was really intentional for me and my co-editor, I guess you could say, Dr. Kim Parker to build that space. To build the space where teachers of color could talk about their experiences. So build it, if it's not already there. Find your people and create that.

[00:40:42.11] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: So how are we going to connect with you if we want to be part of your people? So what's your preferred way of someone after they listen to this podcast to connect with you?

[00:40:55.07] TRICIA EBARVIA: Oh, sure. I mean, it's just my name Tricia Ebarvia everywhere.

[00:41:00.54] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK. There we go. I will keep it simple. We want to be with your people. I want to be your people. Thank you. And so Adam, how do you sustain yourself? Or stay healthy or be inspired or all of that?

[00:41:18.67] ADAM PELLETIER: OK. I would say just to piggyback on what Tricia said too, I found that beginning my teacher career, finding common ground with other teachers as the only teacher of this content area, it's not like there's a production department, often were the only ones in our district.

[00:41:40.01] And we would find ourselves finding common ground just like complaining about certain things and what's the deal not enough prep time? Why are we going to this assembly when we need to do this. And that wasn't fulfilling to me in any way. Like it's important to vent, but I found that finding colleagues where you can create that creativity and maybe for me, it means like a cross-curricular experience.

[00:42:05.30] Maybe we can combine that English class in our video class and make a really cool video essay about cultural diversity or maybe you can take what they're talking about in history class or theater class. And now they're the actors in our film. So I'm much more stimulated by that type of common ground than what's with the deal with this principal and what's the deal with this administrator or whatever.

[00:42:31.71] So I do think that human connection is so important. For me also what I've learned, especially heightened during the pandemic, was to find an outlet. A personal outlet. And for me it's cooking. I learned to do some baking over the pandemic, and whether it's pizza or donuts or bagels or bread, I'm full on carbs.

[00:42:56.07] But I find it to be super fun and fulfilling. And I've even had some days like treating the seniors to some homemade donuts and coming in. I think they really appreciate that. And it's fun to be able to share that skill with them and make this for a purpose for these students. So I think that has been an outlet for me, as well as just exercise and just ways to find balance and just to kind of-- I'm learning that to sustain this over a career, it's really easy to get burnt out.

[00:43:32.47] So some days, it's best just to leave work at work. Leave the laptop on the desk. Go home and do whatever you need to do. Find that outlet. But then when you're back at school, it allows you to be 100% present for the students in that moment. So I really try to do that too and not try to be distracted by any other thing than what's going on during that period. But I find that in order for that to work over a period of a career, that I really need to find that balance with food.

[00:44:01.96] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yay. So I think I've seen some food on your Instagram. So what is your Instagram handle?

[00:44:10.69] ADAM PELLETIER: Well, yeah.

[00:44:11.57] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: How do you call it? What is it? Adam Pelletier or--

[00:44:14.75] ADAM PELLETIER: People could find me at Peloetad-- P-E-L-O-E-T-A-D at Instagram.

[00:44:21.26] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes. Let's see those donuts, and bagels, and all the good stuff. Yay.

[00:44:25.85] ADAM PELLETIER: All my food pics.

[00:44:26.48] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: All the food pics on Adam's-- so Tricia, that'll be good. You can see some of the carbs. OK. So winding down, Tricia, I just want to do a shout out for your book, your new book coming out October. How do you think this new book is going to contribute? Clearly, it's close to your heart. And it's all issues that we need to be understanding. How is this going to help teachers understand and be less nervous about dealing with bias and race issues and all the complicated stuff?

[00:45:07.30] TRICIA EBARVIA: Well, I think-- sometimes I want to say. We need this work now more than ever, but the truth is that's false. I mean, it's just-- what we're seeing in terms of the challenges like book bands and literally making it illegal to talk about actual accurate history and erasing important people from the historical record in school, it just-- you sometimes wonder if we're living in this dystopian reality that we sometimes teach about.

[00:45:42.09] So it's really challenging right now. And I understand and feel great empathy for teachers, because I know I've been there. And I've had those interactions at school board meetings and so on. And it's really hard. But I think the book is really a product of my decades teaching and my life experience and the community that I've built with other teachers.

[00:46:08.67] Because every idea in there is something that was born out of my relationships with others-- whether it's my relationship with students or my relationship with colleagues. And I think what the book tries to do or what I try to lay out is how we can be our most authentic selves in the classroom. How we can interrogate how we've been socialized. And we've been socialized in ways that are harmful. We have to admit that.

[00:46:40.69] And it's all of us. No one is immune to this, myself included. And so I share a lot about my own journey. And how can we raise our consciousness to a point that we can be in the classroom and be with our students in ways that are free of those unconscious-- sometimes conscious biases. How can we identify them? How can we notice what we're doing in our classroom with kids? How can we notice what we're choosing to teach and not teach? And then how can we respond in ways that actually center the needs of all the kids in the classroom?

[00:47:17.52] And so the book really goes through all things. It starts with who are we as teachers and what are we bringing into the classroom, who are the kids sitting in front of us? How do we help them unpack who they are and how they've been socialized, because even though they're much younger than us, they've already absorbed a whole lot by the time they get into our classrooms.

[00:47:37.76] There's a whole section on how to build community and then how to expand our vision of reading and writing. So I hope that something in the book is helpful for teachers, no matter where they are in their career. And that it is one step and one offering towards how we can, as teachers-- It's in the title. How do we get free of the things that harm us? And how do we help kids do the same.

[00:48:07.11] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you for that. And I encourage the listeners to find this book and see how you can use it to redefine and reflect on how we can be the most effective teachers in the classroom. Adam, you are a contributor to this new book, When I Started Teaching I Wish I Had Known-- Weekly Wisdom for Beginning Teachers, so for the beginning teachers that are out there, what do you feel about being part of that book? Are you using it yourself as an experienced teacher? What's a shout out for that book?

[00:48:43.89] ADAM PELLETIER: Yeah. For sure, it's such a privilege and an honor to be like featured in this book. And I actually just love having it around and flipping through a random page and just-- whether it's during my prep period or-- I find it just to be so accessible and easy. And I think every teacher can benefit from it in some way regardless of your level of experience.

[00:49:09.62] And just speaking for myself, I just feel like there's so many blind spots I have in my teaching career as a skills I can learn as a teacher, but also, like what Tricia said in terms of the socialization that happens in school and what are the positive elements of that that we want to learn? It's funny, because part of my job used to be making videos for the district. And I would visit kindergarten classrooms and first grade classrooms and that's what I took away.

[00:49:43.10] Is what they're learning is to-- you know, you line up when this happens and you sit on your carpet sample when this happens and you follow these cues and put the book away when you're done, and it goes here. And all those-- when I have to go to the bathroom, I do this. So all those important socialization things that are happening, but there is a whole other layer underneath that.

[00:50:02.81] But anyway, I just love having this book around. And I'll definitely be reading it through. And I think everyone-- again, I think everyone can benefit from it. And it's just really a cool feather in my cap to say, oh, there I am on page 26. And so I've been bragging to my colleagues.

[00:50:20.69] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that. Teacher wisdom in action. All right. We're ready to close out our show. So for my final question for you, I'm giving you this prompt that I learned from a professor at Harvard, Richard Elmore. And he wrote a book several years ago called I Used to Think and Now I Think.

[00:50:43.09] And as teachers, we do change and shift and add to our repertoire over time. So I think part of our reflection and our learning and our wisdom comes from when we intentionally slow down and actually think, oh, I don't think that anymore. Out of some other life experience. So I want each of you to share something that you used to think about either being a teacher or education, and now you've shifted and you think something else. So how about Tricia? How would you respond to that prompt? I used to think, and now I think.

[00:51:31.66] TRICIA EBARVIA: Well, I used to think that-- and I actually still find myself, sometimes feeling this way. That there's one way or a correct way of doing things. It almost seems like silly and obvious to even state this. But I think sometimes we get trapped into this idea that this is what kids have to read. This is how kids have to write. This is what skill they must have.

[00:51:57.35] And as I've grown older in my career, I've just realized that those are all things that are constructed that we've decided implicitly or however way from handed down to us mandates that this is how it's supposed to be done. And I don't think that's true. I think there are many ways. So I would say, I used to think there was one, but now I realize that there are many. And there are many that I'm not even aware of.

[00:52:24.08] And that goes for how to do things, but it's also in terms of what we learn. I remember I had a conversation with a teacher, maybe many years ago. And we were talking about Huck Finn. And we were talking about, what would happen if they didn't teach that anymore? And I just said to the teacher, well, what's the words that would happen if you just didn't teach that?

[00:52:47.25] And she just looked at me like, I don't know. Well, like what do you mean? And I thought, just really. What if you just didn't teach that? What's the worst that could happen? And I think even asking that question what's the worst that could happen. Opens us up to possibilities. Because teachers are wed to certain ideas, texts. In my world, it's usually texts and novels and such.

[00:53:13.95] But there's so much out there. We can't limit our students to our biases. And so I think that's really important to always do that self-reflective work. So not one, but many. And many were not even aware of.

[00:53:31.29] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you. Thank you. Adam? I used to think, and now I think.

[00:53:37.55] ADAM PELLETIER: I used to think being an effective teacher meant working around the clock. And now I think finding balance and being 100% present for my students during class and just leaving work at work and working with gratitude can lead to a much more rewarding and sustainable experience.

[00:53:57.27] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you, Adam. I want to thank both of you for this fabulous launch to a very successful Teacher to Teacher sharing our wisdom podcast series. And I hope all the listeners out there are taking notes and understanding that this is a great way to sustain our profession as teachers. Thank you both from the bottom of my heart. And Tori, last words? What do you think about this conversation?

[00:54:33.12] TORI MELLO BACHMAN: I think it's great. I'm really struck by-- well, first of all, how both of you talked early on about how you came into teaching in very different ways. But then as the conversation progressed, I noticed a lot of really common threads in how you teach and how you approach teaching. So that really struck me.

[00:54:55.71] Adam, your content area, you said is so different and maybe even a lone wolf sometimes in your school. But I enjoyed listening to the ways you are engaging your students and working with other teachers. I think that's probably something really important for a lot of teachers who teach in the-- what do we call it? The related arts or music, art, phys Ed. Ways that you can feel connected to other teachers and to the school and the students as a whole sounds a really good way to sustain yourself in that work.

[00:55:36.52] And Tricia, I've learned so much from you over the years-- excuse me, just from your social media presence and from your presentations at conferences, and now working with you on Get Free. And I'm always really struck at the real way that you show up. And I really appreciated the way you shared-- talking about how early on in your education, how you started to absorb what it means to be in school.

[00:56:09.49] And I think that's something that's really important for teachers to think about that we all-- teachers and parents even, we all think about education and school in terms of the way it was for us. And it's really important, as you said at the end, to think about the many things that we don't really even know about yet.

[00:56:30.01] And the ways that kids come into the school and the way teachers show up for their kids in school. I think you both really brought up interesting things to think about in terms of building community and just sustaining your work. So I appreciate you both so much for being here. Thank you.

[00:56:53.11] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thanks, everyone. And we are signing off. And we'll see you next episode.

[00:57:02.31] NARRATOR: Thanks, everyone, for joining today's teacher to teacher conversation. We hope this time together energized you, inspired you, and reminded you why you chose to become a teacher. You can purchase any of Carol's books and any books mentioned in the podcast online at www.corwin.com. Please leave a review, and share this podcast with your colleagues. Thank you for listening to the Corwin Teacher to Teacher Podcast-- a place to share teacher wisdom and engage in authentic conversations with experienced educators.

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